An Actual Climate Debate; Mann vs Curry Pt Deux

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I hope to attend, but if I can’t I hope people in the audience can ask a few of the following questions:
1) If you control for H2O and isolate the impact of CO2 on atmospheric temperatures, you find that CO2 has zero impact. Antarctica, the ideal control for H2O, shows no warming over the past 50 years and 33% increase in CO2.

2) The only defined mechanism by which CO2 can affect climate change is through the GHG effect and thermalization of 13 to 18 micron LWIR. Those wavelengths don’t penetrate or warm the oceans. Given ocean cycles control the atmospheric temperatures, how can you blame CO2 for atmospheric warming when it can’t warm the oceans.
3) The Hockeystick and recent NASA Sea Level chart show multiple dog-legs which don’t line up. What about the underlying physics of a CO2 molecule, which shows a log DECAY, could ever explain a dog-leg is temperatures and sea level, especially when they don’t match on each chart.
4) The N Pole and Greenland show sub-zero temperatures most of if not all of the year and evidence shows the ice and glaciers are melting FROM BELOW!!! How does CO2 cause warm oceans and geothermal activity to melt the glaciers?
5) Long-term instrumental temperature data controlled for H2O don’t show the warming claimed in the hockeystick, why don’t thermometers argee with the hockeystick?
6) Climate models based upon CO2 being the main driver of climate have failed miserably, why is that?
7) MODTRAN shows that CO2 has zero impact on the layer of the atmosphere where all ground measurements are taken. The CO2 signature isn’t identified until an altitude of 3km when H2O precipitates out of the atmosphere. Why are you right and MODTRAN wrong in modeling CO2?
8) The physics of the CO2 molecule is that it thermalizes LWIR between 13 and 18 micron. Those wavelengths have a blackbody temp of -80 degree C. How do these low energy wavelengths warm anything?
9) Washing my black car the other day I burned by hand from steam from my wash cloth. A black car in the shade and exposed to the identical LWIR CO2 back radiation was cool. How can CO2 cause these huge temperature differentials? Or is the claim that CO2 causes record daytime temperatures simply false?

Read more at co2islife.wordpress.com

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Comments (9)

  • Avatar

    Bill Butler

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    1) Antarctica IS warming ( See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_in_Antarctica ) although the “Ozone Hole” is a counteracting force – especially over areas near the South Pole. Ozone is a greenhouse gas, and if you decrease ozone the result is the same as if you could also alternately decrease carbon dioxide.

    2) The oceans ARE warming. The warming rate for the last dozen years (The era of Argo Buoy measurements) is equal to the heat content of 5 Hiroshima Atomic Bombs per second – running 24/7 for the last dozen years. If you use 100-watt light bulbs as an alternate measure, the warming rate is equivalent to over 3.4 trillion 100-watt light bulbs running 24/7. See https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/

    3) See the American Institute for Physics for the physics of how carbon dioxide is causing global warming.
    https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm

    4), 5), 6) . . . Etc.

    Reply

  • Avatar

    geran

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    Bill, CO2 can NOT warm the planet. It is NOT a thermodynamic heat source.

    They are lying to you.

    Sleep well.

    Reply

    • Avatar

      Bill Butler

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      Carbon dioxide warms the planet by decreasing the earth’s ability to radiate heat. 250 to 350 parts per million of CO2 is the “just right” amount as it produces surface temperatures favorable for human habitation. If there were no carbon dioxide, the earth’s average temperature would be well below zero F.

      On average the earth intercepts about 1361 watts in solar radiation per square meter. One way or another, the earth has to get rid off this incoming energy. About 30% of the 1361 watts is directly reflected back into space. The remainder is absorbed, and then has to be radiated back into space.

      Carbon dioxide absorbs some of the outgoing radiation and reradiates some of it back to the earth’s surface. If atmospheric carbon dioxide increases, it becomes more difficult for the earth to get rid of incoming solar radiation. The only way to re-balance the heat equation is for the earth’s surface to get warmer – which in turn causes more outgoing heat radiation.

      Reply

      • Avatar

        geran

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        Bill, CO2 is not an insulator either. It absorbs IR, and then it emits IR. That makes it an effective radiative heat transfer enabler. Any infrared that it returns to the surface would have no ability to warm. The likely best level of atmospheric CO2 is about 550 ppm. The problem is mankind can probably not get the level that high, without help from nature. But it doesn’t hurt to try.

        Reply

      • Avatar

        Gary Ashe

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        Bill dear, if the atmosphere did not have 1% of optically active gaseous gases why would be frozen ?.

        Bill how does all the warm air you feel blowing on to your skin get to the TOA
        And when it gets to the top of the atmosphere carrying the co2 with it, how does it cool Bill ?.

        Where does the heat in the 99% of molecules that are not optically active [non radiating ] go Bill……….space ?

        Is it radiated to space by the 1% of the atmosphere that is capable of kinetically absorbing the energy and re-emitting it to space as LWIR ?

        Isnt that the only way heated rising air columns can radiate to space bill.

        So ergo the more radiating molecules, the quicker the steady state suns energy passes through the Earth systems and back to space.

        That is not trapping energy Bill, that is releasing the energy from 99% of the atmosphere that is otherwise ”trapped” in our atmosphere.

        That Bill will lead to a lower state of energy eventually in the atmosphere, hence the CO2global coooing scare of my teenage decade.

        Reply

  • Avatar

    Joseph A Olson

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    “Non Science Nonsense” at CanadaFreePress website, April 2010

    Clueless Curry had a fake debate with the “Hockey Stickery Doc” in the Disney screed, Discover in 2010. It was laughable. I was lectured by Curry at the Heritage Summit, Sept 2014 and when I introduced myself, she fled like a vampire from a cross.

    Every climaclownologist is a climate alchemist.

    Reply

    • Avatar

      geran

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      Curry supposedly has a degree in geography. That means she probably doesn’t know the difference between a photon, a proton, a protein, or a probiotic.

      But, she’s fun to watch.

      Reply

      • Avatar

        Gary Ashe

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        Yeah but she knows where to find them.

        Reply

  • Avatar

    Doug Cotton

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    The American Institute of Physics got it wrong and their argument ignores or misapplies no less than three long-established laws of physics.

    Until you (and they at AIP) understand maximum entropy production you will never understand what is happening in regard to the relevant non-radiative heat transfers in planetary tropospheres and beneath any solid surfaces. Just click my name and, after reading the “PSI Slayer Errors” page, go to the Home page and read my three papers (the first of which was peer-reviewed by Hans Schreuder) especially the 2013 one about “Planetary Core and Surface Temperatures.”

    My climate websites have been visited by about 100,000 and these papers have each been downloaded free by hundreds of others because word is getting around that they contain the correct physics.

    Nobody has ever proved me wrong about the “heat creep” process which does (and indeed has to) occur in all planetary systems right down to their cores.

    Surface temperatures in planets with significant atmospheres are not determined by incident solar radiation and nor can backradiation be added to such solar radiation because the Stefan-Boltzmann calculations apply only for a single source of radiation. Period.

    Reply

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