The Good, the Bad, and the Inverse

Written by Dr Klaus L.E. Kaiser

You may have noticed, the media is reporting a steady stream of “new science” that turns everything you knew topsy-turvy. What was known to be good for you is suddenly touted as bad and vice-versa. The latest news is just one of many examples of that kind and this one involves anti-oxidants.

Anti-Oxidants

Anti-oxidants (AOs) is a term for a variety of substances (dare I say the word chemicals) which occur naturally in most plants and so are a part of our daily food.  AOs include vitamins like fruitVitamin C (VC) which has long been recognized as a vital (therefore the term “vitamin”) food ingredient to keep you healthy.

VC was the first of such substances to be discovered, though not recognized at the time. The prevention of scurvy by eating fresh fruits and vegetables was described more than 2,000 years ago by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC–c. 380 BC). The British navy “re-discovered” it in the 18th century and modern science found ways to make it synthetically from natural sugars.

Other important anti-oxidants are carotene type compounds found in most veggies and fruits. In fact, the term carotene is derived from the name of the vegetable plant carrot. So, what’s the new science on anti-oxidants about then?

The News

Fox News reports on recent study by Swedish scientists that claims to have found evidence that AOs may not only not prevent cancer from spreading in mice but actually spurs its growth. Under the title “Antioxidants speed up lung cancer growth, study shows” the article describes a recent report in the journal Science Translational Medicine with a quote from the corresponding author, Martin Bergö from the Sahlgrenska Cancer Center, “If anything , if you look at all of them, anti-oxidants do not protect against cancer.”

Though the study only addressed tumor progression and not its initiation or prevention, this only becomes clear further down in the article. Moreover, it says the researchers studied only the effects of N-acetylcysteine (NAC) and vitamin E (not vitamin C). NAC is available as a dietary supplement with anti-oxidant properties and vitamin pills also have vitamin E as a common constituent.

Mom’s Advice

Your Mom’s good advice still is valid. In our modern western societies fresh fruit and vegetables are available year-round. If you consume a balanced diet that includes such greens, neither any vitamin nor other supplements should be necessary to keep you healthy. Taking in more than your body’s requirement of vitamins and related compounds does not necessarily make you any healthier.

In fact, it could do the opposite.

So, remember your Mom’s admonishments and eat your veggies!

——————

Dr. Klaus L.E. Kaiser is author of CONVENIENT MYTHS, the green revolution – perceptions, politics, and facts
convenientmyths.com

Dr. Kaiser can be reached at: mail@convenientmyths.com

 

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Comments (38)

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    Klaus – if you wish to dispute the official statement referring to the “estimated safe and adequate daily dietary intake range for chromium. For adults and adolescents that range was 50 to 200 mcg” (in #19 in the reference I cited above) then explain to your readers that that is what you are doing. You are arguing with a government authority, not me.

  • Avatar

    Klaus

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    The cited report “Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet” at http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Chromium-HealthProfessional/ states:

    “Adult women in the United States consume about 23 to 29 mcg of chromium per day from food, which meets their AIs [Adequate Intakes] unless they’re pregnant or lactating. In contrast, adult men average 39 to 54 mcg per day, which exceeds their AIs.”

    Therefore, it is an irresponsible lie to claim (comment #10) that “about 90% of adults are chromium deficient.”

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    Klaus.

    In #16 you stated that there were no significant numbers of people with chromium deficiencies.

    But then, in #19, I cited the “estimated safe and adequate daily dietary intake” range for chromium. For adults and adolescents that range was 50 to 200 mcg

    “Adult women in the United States consume about 23 to 29 mcg of chromium per day from food … adult men average 39 to 54 mcg per day”

    It seems to me a reasonable deduction that at least 90% of adults in the US are consuming less than the minimum 50mcg.

    Do you admit to being corrected on this issue?

    I also listed in #18 a total of 15 confirmed benefits of chromium supplementation.

    I suggest that taking such a low cost supplement is advisable, and of course I have been for decades, as I suppose some of the 16,000 visitors to my website may also be doing. There you can also read “Chromium supplements have slowed the aging process in animal studies quite dramatically.”

    http://slower-aging.com

    By the way, in recent years when I have been devoting so much time to research in climatology and atmospheric and thermodynamic physics, I no longer engage in any income earning activities relating to natural medicine.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    Getting back to the topic of this thread, here are some more words of inspired wisdom from Dougy “ .. age slowly Natural Medicine Research Centre. .. I know aging can be slowed because I’ve achieved it myself. Below right you’ll see a photo of myself just before my 60th birthday – with my 32 year old wife. Why wait? It’s your life! With just one $55 consultation here in our Sydney Office you will learn how to prevent cancer, diabetes, arthritis, heart disease, Alzheimer’s disease and other life threatening diseases by minimising oxidative stress and inflammation that are known to cause premature aging. A comprehensive diet and supplementation program will be designed for your individual needs at a cost which could be as little as $3.30 a day .. ” (http://ageslowly.homestead.com/). If I was forced to make a choice I think I’d choose Faith Healing – it’s no more successful but can be a lot cheaper.

    Sorry Dougy but it appears that your opinion of your competence as an authority on climate and so many other subjects is somewhat inflated, differing significantly from the opinion that more respected specialists have. That possibly explains why Douglas J Cotton B.Sc.(Physics), B.A.(Econ) Dip.Bus.Admin Private researcher in atmospheric physics ..” (http://judithcurry.com/2012/12/01/open-thread-weekend-4/#comment-273913) was welcomed enthusiastically on 14th March 2012 as an “ .. author for Principia Scientific International .. ” (http://www.principia-scientific.org/latest-study-confirms-no-atmospheric-warming-from-carbon-dioxide.html) but now is an outcast who has to hide behind false names like “newclimatechangetheory” and “visiting scientist”.

    Oh how are the mighty fallen!!

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    Hi Sunset(Thomas Richard)tommy,

    Well done. That’s another blog administrator, alongside Lucia (The Air Vent) Liljegren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_Liljegren), Dr. Roy Spencer (http://www.drroyspencer.com/about/), Roger (Tallbloke) Tattersall (http://www.education.leeds.ac.uk/people/support/tattersall http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/about/), et al. to reject Dougy Cotton’s self-promoting nonsense. As Dougy acknowledged “ .. WUWT, The Air Vent, Science of Doom, Tallbloke’s Talkshop and of course Skeptical Science – on all of which I have been banned for writing material such as in my published papers on PSI .. ” (http://judithcurry.com/2012/12/01/open-thread-weekend-4/#comment-274097). I refer readers to Lucia’s May 2013 article “Doug Cotton is Banned” and the comments thereon (http://rankexploits.com/musings/2013/doug-cotton-is-banned-admin/).

    Dougy’s beliefs have been rejected outright ages ago by numerous respected climate bloggers but that will stop him. He’ll be back here under another false name pushing his pseudo-scientific nonsense – like all those who appear to suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    On 6th Jan Dougy was boasting on this blog ” .. Watch for the book “Why it’s not carbon dioxide after all” to be available within 3 weeks .. ” (http://www.principia-scientific.org/natural-sun-cycles-will-bring-worst-cold-in-200-years.html comment #5). On 3rd and 4th Feb he said on this thread “ .. No one in the world (to my knowledge) has explained this in any other valid way than I have in the book “Why it’s not carbon dioxide after all” soon to be available through Amazon and Barnes & Noble .. My book outlines the breakthrough in physics which can be used to prove that “It’s not carbon dioxide after all .. “. Elsewhere he said “ .. ” .. I have provided what I believe to be the correct explanation (based on valid physics) which has not been documented in any other world literature to my knowledge .. ” (http://www.principia-scientific.org/our-template-letter-to-deluded-global-warming-journalists.html Comment #16).

    So, on the one hand he claims a BREAKTHROUGH IN PHYSICS and on the other he only BELIEVES that he has provided the correct explanation and this wonderful book of his remains unpublished. He’s now resorted to inviting anyone to review and comment on Word copies prior to publication.

    Perhaps this book is just another of Dougy’s fantasies. I have to agree with Pat Obar who said on this blog on 5th Feb “ .. You have nothing but fantasy! .. ” (http://www.principia-scientific.org/our-template-letter-to-deluded-global-warming-journalists.html comment #31). Instead of spouting his questionable beliefs Dougy would be well advised to try just for once to listen to what others who are more competent than he have said in their efforts to enlighten him.

  • Avatar

    Sunsettommy

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    [quote name=”Yelder Retep”]Hi Klaus,

    You may be wondering who the individual hiding behind the false name “visiting physicist” is. I not a betting man but would put money on it being one-time PSI member Dougy Cotton.

    If you follow the links given in “SpotlightON – PSI and PSI Acumen Ltd” sub-section 3,14 you’ll learn all that you need to know about Dougy. He begins his “Slower Aging” blog hwith “I have taken antioxidant supplements since the 1960’s and I now find that most people think I am at least 10 years younger. ” (http://www.slower-aging.com/).[/quote]

    Yes it is him.

    I have banned him again for trolling and self promotion.

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    Yelder

    Just because we are now in the middle of the downward trend in a 60 year natural cycle is not convincing proof that the world is not still warming. The long term (approx. 1,000 year) cycle probably still has another 100 years or so before reaching its maximum, and that will be about half a degree above the 1998-2003 maximum. Thus, in another 15 to 17 years or so the world will see the start of another period similar to the last 30 years of last century that sparked all the concern. My book outlines the breakthrough in physics which can be used to prove that [i]”It’s not carbon dioxide after all.”[/i]

    If you or anyone wishes to discuss the physics I will send a free MS Word file of the text of the book (with diagrams) if you email me at …

    earth-climate@outlook.com

    Then you may respond privately with comments relating to the physics therein. Please do not reproduce any content (or even short quotes) from the book prior to its appearance on both Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    Can’t wait for Dougy’s next sermon!!

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    And, on the subject of this thread …

    [b]Should it not be good news that you can slow your aging process whilst, at the same time, helping to reduce the risk of many major diseases?[/b]

    It’s your life. The information is there on the [i]Life Extension Foundation [/i]website http://www.lef.org and it is supported by many thousands of well conducted clinical trials, the vast majority of which do not get reported by the media possibly due to pressure from pharmaceutical companies and partly because of the reaction that journalists are likely to receive – just like some of the comments from “know-alls” on this thread.

    I had the privilege of attending lectures by [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Sumner_Miller]Prof Julius Sumner Miller[/url] in the Physics Department at Sydney University in the early 1960’s. Some may remember his “Why is it so?” TV series. I have learnt to ask why is it so, be that in the field of climate research, longevity research or research into the claims made by Jesus Christ that He came down from Heaven as the Son of our Creator, God. I don’t believe He was a liar or some kind of hoax, like the carbon dioxide hoax most certainly is.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    Dougy,

    I wasn’t aware that the world DOES have to worry about carbon dioxide emissions, having seen no convincing evidence that our emissions of CO2 are having any significant impact upon those different global climates.

    In my opinion what the world DOES need to worry about is the UN’s IPCC, politicians, environmental activists, investors in renewable energy and (last but not least) the power hungry issuing doom-mongering propaganda about an imaginary climate catastrophe arising from our burgeoning use of fossil fuels.

    But there is dishonesty too from those on the other side of the debate

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    @ Yelder

    My response pertaining to climate matters is to refer you to comment #16 on this thread …

    http://www.principia-scientific.org/our-template-letter-to-deluded-global-warming-journalists.html

    When people resort to attempts at personal slander, rather than producing any valid contrary physics, it is pretty clearly a last resort, probably motivated by some pecuniary interest in maintaining the status quo.

    [b]Should it not be good news that the world does not have to worry about carbon dioxide emissions?
    [/b]

  • Avatar

    solvingtornadoes

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    [quote name=”Yelder Retep”]These included the derogatory comment that ” .. Isn’t this all about majorities – consensus – like majorities of seven, for example, at PSI all of whom .. haven’t a clue about the physics I’ve used to explain all planetary temperatures, but must defend their own papers and articles, just like the above. [/quote]

    Yelder,
    This was very informative.
    People that have deep religious beliefs usually have many attributes that make them constructive members of society. But they often have none of the requisite intellectual tools to confront scientific concepts that are novel or controversial.

    Believers believe. Scientist fight belief. There is no common ground.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    CONTINUATION OF PREVIOUS COMMENT

    For many months Doug has been posting comments on the Internet promoting what he refers to as his “papers” and linking to one of his numerous blogs. His arguments are repeatedly rejected by respected scientists .. and other bloggers, this comment being representative “ .. I suspect Cotton is the crank of all cranks. He must be working his way through every climate blog on the internet until he finally gets banned from them all, just for the nuisance factor alone .. ” (http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/03/global-warming-as-cargo-cult-science/#comment-39169).

    …Douglas Cotton B.Sc.(Physics), B.A.(Econ), Dip.Bus.Admin .. Majored in Physics at Sydney University 1966 under Prof Harry Messel et al. Extensive subsequent private research and post-graduate studies in Economics, IT, Accounting, Business Administration, Marketing, Climate Change, Nutrition and Natural Medicine. Founder of Natural Medicine Research Centre. General interest in scientific research in a variety of fields .. ” (http://theconversation.edu.au/new-csiro-website-shows-steady-rise-of-greenhouse-gases-1908).

    UNQUOTE.

    “visiting scientist” Dougy Cotton said above that ” .. you can read that God limited life to 120 years. I believe that to be an average, because Abraham lived to 175 years after that .. ” – HHHMmmm!!! Perhaps Dougy is stuffing himself with his “natural medicine” potions in the hope of beating Abraham.

    FOOTNOTE:

    Notice that Dougy signed himself off as “Manager, Climate Research Centre”!! but what is that organisation? “ .. Our Climate Research Centre (founded by myself with extensive experience and training in Physics and decades of research experience) has very clearly and cogently exposed the inaccuracies in the IPCC model and their assumptions and predictions .. ” (http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-climate-change-1934).

    That is not the only “research centre” that Dougy runs. He’s also has his “Natural Medicine Research Centre” (http://ageslowly.homestead.com/).

    All of that energy to manage two research centres, his “Acclaim Wedding and General Photography” company (http://www.ozviews.com/BestPics01.html), his “Acclaim Technical Software” company (http://www.australianpracticesoftware.com/) and goodness knows what else (http://www.douglascotton.com/) must be down to those wonderful natural medicines that he has such faith in.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    “visiting scientist” Dougy Cotton appears to see himself as some kind of prophet providing us all with enlightenment across a range of disciplines from theology (http://www.savedbythelamb.com/) through biology (to quantum physics (http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-video-2-failed-at-science-attack-the-scientists.html#59797 – see Footnote. Maybe it is worthwhile posting here some extracts from “SpotlightON –PSI and PSI Acumen Ltd” sub-section 3.14 – Member (??) Douglas Jeffrey Cotton (http://globalpoliticalshenanigans.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/spotlighton-principia-scientific.html).

    QUOTE: ..

    On 22nd March 2012 Doug Cotton declared .. that he was ” .. proud to be a member of PSI and an author of one of only six selected publications on their site – publications which talk real science .. I am proud to be an active member of Principia Scientific International and, as such, I am in daily email contact with many of these main stream scientists, including professors and PhD’s in various disciplines such as physics, applied mathematics, chemistry, climatology and astro physics .. What I write are not just my theories. We are all in agreement that standard physics and empirical results back us up .. “(http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/03/global-warming-as-cargo-cult-science/#comment-40081) ..

    Despite those claims to his being a PSI member, Doug Cotton does not appear ever to have been listed among PSI’s selection of valued members (http://principia-scientific.org/about/why-psi-is-a-private-assoc.html). Perhaps this is explained by his critical comments on a July 2013 article “GREENHOUSE GAS THEORY IS FALSE” by PSI’s “Vice-Chairman North” Pierre LaTour. These included the derogatory comment that ” .. Isn’t this all about majorities – consensus – like majorities of seven, for example, at PSI all of whom .. haven’t a clue about the physics I’ve used to explain all planetary temperatures, but must defend their own papers and articles, just like the above. Who are the physicists who reviewed this article before publication? .. ” (http://www.principia-scientific.org/greenhouse-gas-theory-is-false.html). Doug Cotton went on to say ” .. They will continue to make PSI just as much a propagator of pseudo physics as are your warmists .. “.

    TO BE CONTINUED

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    Yes there is a difference in the seven years between December 2005 and December 2012 when the video was shot. You would do well to spend ten minutes listening to that video (as over 1,300 others have) and you’ll find it linked from my second climate website http://climate-change-theory.com where there is also a link to my PSI paper [url=http://principia-scientific.org/publications/psi_radiated_energy.pdf][i]”Radiated Energy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics.”[/i][/url]

    [b]I’m still waiting for your explanation as to how the required energy gets into the surface of Venus in order to raise its temperature by 5 degrees over the course of its 4-month-long day.[/b]

    No one in the world (to my knowledge) has explained this in any other valid way than I have in the book [i]”Why it’s not carbon dioxide after all”[/i] soon to be available through Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    Hi Klaus,

    Have you looked at his You-tube presentation on Climate Change to which he links on his “Slower Aging” page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YbyfqUvfY&feature=youtu.be)?

    Maybe he should move it away from a site promoting anti-aging potions.

  • Avatar

    Klaus

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    @ “Yelder Retep”

    Thanks, I get it. If you look for pictures of him on Google, there are plenty in which he certainly looks much older than in the one on the website you mention which (supposedly) was taken in 2005. Look at, for example, at https://plus.google.com/116929017134684086369/posts

    I suppose Photoshop does the trick.

  • Avatar

    Yelder Retep

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    Hi Klaus,

    You may be wondering who the individual hiding behind the false name “visiting physicist” is. I not a betting man but would put money on it being one-time PSI member Dougy Cotton.

    If you follow the links given in “SpotlightON – PSI and PSI Acumen Ltd” sub-section 3,14 you’ll learn all that you need to know about Dougy. He begins his “Slower Aging” blog hwith “I have taken antioxidant supplements since the 1960’s and I now find that most people think I am at least 10 years younger. ” (http://www.slower-aging.com/).

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    “Soil environment is related to the longevity level. The
    background concentration of Se in soil has a significant
    positive correlation with longevity index”

    [url=http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F236460838_Effects_of_Soil_Trace_Elements_on_Longevity_Population_in_China%2Ffile%2F60b7d518add7d54840.pdf&ei=QL_uUs7JD4n_lAX4-4G4Dw&usg=AFQjCNEgD9-w29iC5OFcHbXbay0y8RVjaw&sig2=JWis0xuEwhlmPguz7mafJA]Source[/url]

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    “In 1989, the National Academy of Sciences established an “estimated safe and adequate daily dietary intake” range for chromium. For adults and adolescents that range was 50 to 200 mcg [17]. In 2001, DRIs for chromium were established.”

    “Adult women in the United States consume about 23 to 29 mcg of chromium per day from food … adult men average 39 to 54 mcg per day”

    “17.
    17.National Research Council, Food and Nutrition Board. Recommended Dietary Allowances, 10th Edition. National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 1989. “

    Quoted from
    http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Chromium-HealthProfessional/

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    No Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) has been established for chromium, but the ESADDI (estimated safe and adequate daily dietary intake) is 50-200 mcg.

    Chromium [b]supplementation [/b]has been shown to:

    1. Improve insulin resistance in type II diabetes
    2. Improve insulin binding to red blood cells
    3. Reverse steroid induced diabetes
    4. Lower serum triglycerides
    5. Lower serum LDL
    6. Increase serum HDL
    7. Reduce cholesterol
    8. Reduce plaque in the aorta
    9. Reduce insulin requirements
    10. Enhance immune function and response
    11. Improves glucose intolerance, from mild intolerance to type II diabetes
    12. Normalizes blood sugar
    13. Increase fat loss while increasing lean muscle mass
    14. Act as an antioxidant when combined with zinc
    15. Combats oxidative stress in diabetes

    ([url=http://www.lef.org/abstracts/codex/chromium_index.htm?source=search&key=chromium%2090%20deficiency]source[/url])

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    The Life Extension Foundation is a not-for-profit organisation using any surplus funds for research at the cutting edge. I don’t contradict myself. The quantities of selenium and other nutrients that are found to be effective in reducing the risk of numerous diseases are usually well above those obtained from food. Most people don’t know how much they get from food or what levels they actually have in their bodies, but tests show that levels are often low. Unfortunately some tests are only done after death.

    At least 200IU per day of each of vitamin E and selenium is usually used in these clinical trials which of course involve humans. These levels are almost impossible to obtain from the average diet.

    My point is that what you write indicates to myself and others that you have very little knowledge of the thousands of clinical trials that have been carried out with nutrient supplementation. Because of your lack of knowledge (even that relating to the Life Extension Foundation) you are not qualified to write an article such as this and I am left wondering what is your motive in doing so. You are misleading readers with your biased and unfounded “information” on all this, and you are obviously not prepared to admit you are wrong or look into the trials that are cited on the lef.org website. These trials are conducted by those who recognise the potential for supplements to prolong and save lives.

  • Avatar

    Klaus

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    @ “visiting physicist”

    You are starting to contradict yourself: In post #4 you say “you will get nowhere near enough selenium [from a healthy diet]” and in post #11 you say “who really knows their selenium level” referring to people in Walcha and their supposed extraordinary longevity.

    Rather than providing a link to a scientific report demonstrating such, all you do is referring to the lef.org web site which is owned by “Life Extension Foundation Buyer Clubs” of Ft. Lauderdale, FL and affiliates, an entity in the business of selling supplements of all kinds against any conceivable condition, etc. I am sure it is a “very healthy business” and would not be surprised if you had any financial interest in that kind of business.

    As I wrote earlier, neither selenium nor chromium deficiencies are common conditions. The statement, attributed to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, that “90% of adults are chromium deficient” is a falsehood propagated by lef.org and persons like you.

    THEREFORE, I FIND IT NECESSARY TO CAUTION ALL READERS HERE ABOUT THE VERACITY OF YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS.

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    I suggest you find out more about the (non-profit) Life Extension Foundation (established 1980) including the credentials of their medical advisory board and the standard that research on humans must exhibit in order to be cited on their website, which is probably the most comprehensive of its kind in the world, researching the research.

    Countless thousands of researchers have studied nutrient supplementation with standard double blind studies every bit as sound as any studies on new medications.

    You have no such evidence for your wild statements and you misquote me when you use the word “prevent” so go back and read what I did write and some of the studies which support such. I have studied such clinical trials in depth over the course of several decades, including a post-graduate course in Natural Medicine conducted by an Australian university. What have you done to support your conjectures?

    I don’t dispute your reference to inflammation. Some supplements help to reduce such. But aging is a far more complex process than you make out and is multi-facetted. Reducing oxidative damage is just one part of the puzzle. Read [url=http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item33834/The-Future-of-Aging.html?source=search&key=human%20aging]this article[/url] for example.

    You have no evidence for what you write, whereas I can cite thousands of published studies of the highest calibre carried out on humans.

    [b][i]What is it that you hope to achieve propagating such unproven conjectures? Do you enjoy seeing people die unnecessarily?
    [/i][/b]

    Fortunately there are people in this world who don’t get persuaded by those such as yourself. They look into the research which backs the claims, forming their own opinions and deciding for themselves which if any supplements they will take. Do you consider you have some vitally important role to influence them otherwise without contrary evidence of any kind? The research is out there. We don’t need people like yourself telling us every single such piece of research is false – as if any one person could have read it all anyway.

  • Avatar

    Shooter

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    And my last part:

    Visiting Physicist concludes (forgive the confusion; I forgot to add quotes at my last post):

    “If you do not have extensive knowledge in this field you should not be writing such articles.” – Irony, for someone who doesn’t KNOW how biochemistry works or how ridiculous anti-oxidants really are.

    Alright then, provide a mega-study that shows, without a doubt, that multi-vitamins can save your life.

    Plus, SOD has nothing to do with extending life, it has everything to do with shortening it.

    All of the tests mentioned – if any are done – have not been done on humans.

    “I have studied it for decades and also done courses in nutrition and natural medicine.” – There we have it, folks. ‘Natural medicine’ is not a science. It undermines real medicine and pushes these vitamin supplements and other hoo-ha as fact, when it isn’t. Plus, it says you’re a physicist, not a pharmacist.

    “One final note – most such supplements work in synergy and so you should not just take vitamin E on its own, for example. It needs vitamin C and selenium and possibly other minerals for optimum benefits.” – While ignoring that overdosing on Vitamin C is the fastest way to abort a child, as well as potentially killing a human being. So we can up-end all these vitamins and poof, we’re dead.

    I’ve think I’ve heard of LifeExtension’s Products, and they were never evaluated by the FDA…I wonder why. They’re so quick to shoot down anything critical of them, so it makes me wonder if something’s afoot.

    It’s not surprising to see a so-called doctor use naturopathic medicine – a pseudo-science – and lecture it to us. It’s all pretty, but once you get over the rainbow, the pot of gold is empty.

  • Avatar

    Shooter

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    To continue…

    Visiting Physicist said:

    “If you get a blood test to have your homocysteine level checked you will most likely find it is above 7 micromoles per litre which is the level above which heart disease risk starts to increase. If you were to take vitamins B6 and B12, folic acid and trimethylglyceine (TMG)supplements they would, in combination, lower your homocysteine, as they have for me to a safe level below 5 micromoles/litre.” – Except once homocysteine increases, lowering them may not change anything. Usually those vitamins are there to produce iron, which is good for those with iron deficiency and anemia.

    “The body produces its own very powerful antioxidant called superoxide dismutase. SOD is thousands of times more powerful than vitamin E. Animal lifetimes appear to be related to SOD levels.” – Also forgetting chromosomes, buddy. Taking all the vitamins in the world won’t ‘extend your life’ unless your chromosomes stop shortening. It actually has nothing to do with ageing – it has everything to do with inflammation.

    “Human levels of SOD decline with age unless you boost them, which you can do by about 30% with the SODzyme supplements I referred to above. This could slow the aging process by about 30% whilst protecting against various diseases.” – No evidence for this, unless you can cite something else OTHER than that silly LEF site. Plus, it actually says this:

    “Although SOD’s benefits go beyond the mere neutralization of superoxide anions, the threat of exposure to superoxide should not be underestimated. Superoxide anions are strongly implicated in the development of numerous degenerative diseases, including atherosclerosis, stroke, heart attack, chronic and acute inflammatory conditions, and various other age-related disorders.16

    For example, scientists at the University of Pittsburgh note that overproduction of reactive oxygen species is associated with the development of conditions ranging from cardiovascular disease to neurological disorders and lung pathologies. According to these scientists, SOD is an ideal candidate for preventing cell and tissue damage initiated by reactive oxygen species such as superoxide.17″

    “Even just taking vitamin E supplements has been shown to significantly reduce the risk of heart disease. Chromium supplements can reduce the risk of diabetes. The list goes on and on.” – Correlation does not prove causation; many of the subjects they test are from middle class levels. Try lower class or those truly sick and see if your supplements work.

    “But you should not give people the impression that they will get the levels of antioxidants that have been found necessary for such protection from their food. Do you eat a bucketful of wheat germ each day to get the levels of vitamin E that studies prove to be effective?

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    Shooter

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    [quote name=”visiting physicist”]”The studies I am referring to are clearly ones involving supplementation.” – That’s not biased. At all. Clearly, you know a lot.

    “I quoted the Life Extension Foundation website lef.org where you will find many thousands of studies cited.” – From naturopathic sources, which are hardly reliable. Sorry, but I prefer evidence-based medicine rather than the silly craze of ‘anti-oxidants’. Plus, charging that much money for miracle cures seems to be a scam. Saving billions from death has no price.

    “You clearly state that you think supplements are not necessary for optimal health.” – Unless you have a proven disorder, no, they are not necessary.

    “But you will not get the levels of such antioxidants that have been proven beneficial from a healthy diet. For example, you will get nowhere near enough selenium – a trace antioxidant mineral which works in synergy with vitamin E to help prevent cancer.” – This prevents cancer, that prevents cancer – anything can cause or prevent cancer. Selenium doesn’t prevent cancer, but it can prevent mercury poisoning.

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    visiting physicist

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    Who really knows their selenium level? I suggest it’s better to ensure it is sufficient with antioxidant supplements that include it.

    “patients with colon cancer routinely have selenium deficiencies”

    Source: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/nov2006_report_selenium_02.htm?source=search&key=selenium%20deficiency

    “but selenium deficiency (like folic acid deficiency) can result in decreased DNA methylation”

    Source: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/mar2006_aas_01.htm?source=search&key=selenium%20deficiency

    and many more if you search “selenium deficiency” at lef.org

    Folic acid, by the way, helps lower homocysteine which can cause birth defects. Pregnant women should have their homocysteine measured and lower it with the four supplements mentioned in my earlier comment.

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    visiting physicist

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    Microbiologists tell us that in ideal conditions the human body ought to live to about 120 years. The record is 122 years. In Genesis you can read that God limited life to 120 years. I believe that to be an average, because Abraham lived to 175 years after that.

    Virtually no one leads a perfectly healthy life. Aging is a disease and we are all aging more rapidly than we need to. I am not aging as rapidly as most people and still have a thick head of hair and good eyesight in my late 60’s – and a wife 27 years younger.

    I can see that you don’t get my point. You are measuring deficiency in terms of RDA’s which are known to be modified according to population means. You are not considering the additional advantages of higher dosages obtained through supplementation. But I gave you the lef.org link where you need only to search. For example “chromium deficiency” …

    http://www.lef.org/search/?q=chromium deficiency

    I quote from one of the items: “Unfortunately, [b]about 90% of adults are chromium deficient[/b], according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture”

    from
    http://www.lef.org/newsletter/2004/2004_09_16.htm?source=search&key=chromium%20deficient

    And here is just one benefit of selenium supplementation for starters …

    http://www.lef.org/newsletter/2006/2006_02_04.htm?source=search&key=selenium%20longevity

    It’s a long time since I read the info about Walcha, though I did note that a few years back the oldest woman in Australia came from there. But there’s plenty about selenium supplementation reducing the risk of cancer, as you can search yourself on LEF and elsewhere.

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    Klaus

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    @ “visiting physicist”

    1. To your first question “What is enough of any nutrient?”

    Very simply: What keeps you healthy. Like you, I am thankful for being rarely sick. However, it could not possibly be the result of nutrient supplements, as I have not taken any for over 60 years now.

    2. Your statement that “There are high percentages of people who are deficient in selenium and chromium. In regions like Walcha in NSW, Australia, people do get higher levels of selenium from the soil and it is well known that a higher percentage than normal live beyond 100 years in such regions in various locations in the world.”

    I say that is not true. In fact, there are very few areas in the world where people suffer any such (Se or Cr) deficiencies.

    Furthermore, despite several attempts to find any study supporting your claim about the apparent longevity of people in the Walcha region, supposedly due to high levels of selenium there, I could not locate such. Perhaps you could provide a reference (other than another un-referenced blog comment).

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    visiting physicist

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    What is enough of any nutrient? You cannot tell by your feelings, though I can tell you I am very rarely sick. The RDA’s are minimum requirements. The levels that have additional benefits and are used in the thousands of clinical trials (to which I have referred you) are many times the RDA’s.

    There are high percentages of people who are deficient in selenium and chromium. In regions like Walcha in NSW, Australia, people do get higher levels of selenium from the soil and it is well known that a higher percentage than normal live beyond 100 years in such regions in various locations in the world.

    If you base your knowledge on what gets published in the press you will only read about the one in a thousands trials that appears to rubbish supplementation. This is because the pharmaceutical industry has influence on what gets published because many natural nutrients in sufficiently large doses can replace pharmaceuticals. For example, 10mg of melatonin will give you a good night’s sleep and, in contrast to sleeping pills, is far safer and even helps protect against breast cancer, as does coenzyme Q10.

    I’m sorry if I appear angry, but there are millions of lives at stake and when I see misleading articles like this I recognise the fact that such propaganda is costing lives which may well have been saved with supplementation.

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    Klaus

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    Thanks, quite agree.

    Of course, I meant to address my last comment to the “visiting physicist” not “…scientist”

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    Rosco

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    What is it with people like “visiting physicist” ?

    Are they so insecure and dim they think their insulting behaviour impresses anyone ?

    As soon as I see a comment beginning with phrases like “You’re WRONG’ or “You really don’t know what you are talking about” I know I am going to witness a person display their arrogant “know it all” beliefs without any real ability to back up their absurd half truths and generalities.

    [b]Why not actually contribute ? [/b]

    Do some real research and write a paper yourself.

    I know these types never do though – all they are good for is getting their high by attempting – and often spectacularly failing to achieve – to display how clever and sarcastic they are.

    They never really contribute to anything though.

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    Klaus

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    @ “visiting scientist”

    1. Let me re-iterate: I am recommending a healthy diet with natural anti-oxidants. If you look at the report referred to it suggests otherwise.

    2. I am not against taking nutritional supplements. For example, iodide (in fortified table salt) and fluoride (in potable water) supplements are of much benefit.

    3. Your claim that “you will get nowhere near enough selenium” is a myth. Selenium (Se) deficiency in humans in the US is very rare. The same is true for chromium.

    4. Though I do not eat a bucketful of wheat germ each day I feel just fine and do not appear to suffer from vitamin E deficiency.

    5. Why don’t you come forward and sign your comments with your (real) name instead of a pseudonym?

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    visiting physicist

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    The studies I am referring to are clearly ones involving supplementation. I quoted the Life Extension Foundation website lef.org where you will find many thousands of studies cited. You clearly state that you think supplements are not necessary for optimal health. But you will not get the levels of such antioxidants that have been proven beneficial from a healthy diet. For example, you will get nowhere near enough selenium – a trace antioxidant mineral which works in synergy with vitamin E to help prevent cancer.

    If you get a blood test to have your homocysteine level checked you will most likely find it is above 7 micromoles per litre which is the level above which heart disease risk starts to increase. If you were to take vitamins B6 and B12, folic acid and trimethylglyceine (TMG)supplements they would, in combination, lower your homocysteine, as they have for me to a safe level below 5 micromoles/litre.

    The body produces its own very powerful antioxidant called superoxide dismutase. SOD is thousands of times more powerful than vitamin E. Animal lifetimes appear to be related to SOD levels. Human levels of SOD decline with age unless you boost them, which you can do by about 30% with the SODzyme supplements I referred to above. This could slow the aging process by about 30% whilst protecting against various diseases. Even just taking vitamin E supplements has been shown to significantly reduce the risk of heart disease. Chromium supplements can reduce the risk of diabetes. The list goes on and on.

    But you should not give people the impression that they will get the levels of antioxidants that have been found necessary for such protection from their food. Do you eat a bucketful of wheat germ each day to get the levels of vitamin E that studies prove to be effective?

    If you do not have extensive knowledge in this field you should not be writing such articles. I have studied it for decades and also done courses in nutrition and natural medicine.

    One final note – most such supplements work in synergy and so you should not just take vitamin E on its own, for example. It needs vitamin C and selenium and possibly other minerals for optimum benefits.

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    Stephen J. Crothers

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    [quote name=”visiting physicist”]You really don’t know what you are talking about. I suggest you visit sites like http://www.lef.org and also read there about the supplements like SODzyme and resveratrol which slow the rate of human aging – just another benefit. There are literally thousands of studies which confirm the benefits of antioxidants. And, by the way, modern agriculture has led to very significant reductions in the nutrient levels of fruit and vegetables.[/quote]
    Not only are nutrient levels greatly diminished, our foods are also contaminated with toxic residues from herbicides, insecticides, hormones, antibiotics, and artificial fertilizers. Superphosphate is applied in huge quantities to crop and pasture lands. Superphosphate, although, not commonly known, is carcinogenic too.

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    Klaus

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    @ “visiting physicist”

    It appears you understood me totally wrong! I am much in favor of anti-oxidants, in contrast to the “new science” findings!

  • Avatar

    visiting physicist

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    You really don’t know what you are talking about. I suggest you visit sites like http://www.lef.org and also read there about the supplements like SODzyme and resveratrol which slow the rate of human aging – just another benefit. There are literally thousands of studies which confirm the benefits of antioxidants. And, by the way, modern agriculture has led to very significant reductions in the nutrient levels of fruit and vegetables.

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